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Shark-Bytes Digest Tuesday, April 20 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1286
In this issue:
Re: Re: Stuff in the media
Re: NHL Suspends Zyuzin
Re: Stuff in the media
Re: NHL Suspends Zyuzin
NHL.com's Hockey Talk
Wayne Gretzky
Re: Stuff in the media
Re: Re: Stuff in the media
Re: Stuff in the media
Re: If you missed Fan Appreciation Night...
Re: Re: Stuff in the media
Re: Re: NHL Suspends Zyuzin
Re: Wayne Gretzky
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Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 13:55:29 -0700
From: "Chris Lemon"
Subject: Re: Re: Stuff in the media
- ----- Original Message -----
From:
> < during play based solely on his and other's performance clauses.>>
>
> Well how do you feel about Friesen giving Vinnie the hat trick instead of
> scoring another empty-netter, himself?
If it's just for the sake of a hat trick, and not because if Vinnie gets
X-hat-tricks in a season he gets an extra $5,000,000, I don't mind.
Chuq has a point, I guess it's not all that big of a deal in a meaningless
game, especially when all you're playing for _are_ performance clauses...I
guess I just don't see it as that big of a step between this and someone the
caliber of Rickey Henderson sitting out during a crucial part of the pennant
race to preseve his batting average.
The attitude towars performance clauses should be "I'm going to go out and
play my game the same way I do every night, and let the stats fall where
they may, and if they hit, great. I don't care for analyzing them. But then
again, I guess if I was going to get that much extra over a single point,
I'd be counting down, too. It just saddens me a little, that's all.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 13:58:02 -0700
From: Bill Hart
Subject: Re: NHL Suspends Zyuzin
email@hidden (Alan Denney) asked:
<> From: Bill Hart
<> To: email@hidden
<> Cc: email@hidden, email@hidden
<> Subject: Re: NHL Suspends Zyuzin
<>
<> email@hidden replied:
<>
<> < Did anyone else honestly believe that slash would result in a
<> < concussion?
<>
<> Concussions are as easily caused by blows to the face and jaw as they
<> are to the head.
<>
<> As a punch drunk boxer.
<>
<> Or ask Suter. He's your expert on concussions caused by sticks to
<> the face.
< When did Suter ever cause a concussion via a stick to the *face*?
Are you serious?
Gary Suter was the Blackhawk who ended Paul Kariya's season last
season with a crosscheck to the jaw.
- ----
Bill
email@hidden
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 14:01:23 -0700
From: Jay Zorzy
Subject: Re: Stuff in the media
At 09:36 AM 4/20/1999 , Larry Blair wrote:
>The other interesting thing in the mail was a piece on Pavol Demitra
>passing up an empty net goal at the end of the game against the Kings that
>would have triggered a $500,000 bonus for each of the next two years.
>Why'd he do it? Because, instead, he passed to Scott Young, who had a
>$300,000 bonus on the line. Unfortunately, Young's shot was blocked and
>the game ended.
I wouldn't be surprised to see the bonus awarded to Demitra anyway. At
least that's how it oughta be, the honorable thing to do, considering this
is a team game after all.....
- -Jay
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 14:09:14 -0700
From: "Johnson, Elizabeth"
Subject: Re: NHL Suspends Zyuzin
Vicki Movsession hooked Danielle Goyette in the throat during one of the
Olympic games. It was really nasty.
I've played with Anne, she doesn't need to play dirty, she is fast and plays
her position well.
You said 'non-mail' though - maybe you meant hockey players w/o e-mail
acounts? ;-)
Liz
>At 12:09 PM -0700 4/20/99, Anne Paulson wrote:
>
>You mean of course most *male* pro athletes.
>
>How many non-mail athletes start whacking each other in the face with
>sticks? Other than Anne, of course.
>
>
>
>You mean of course most *male* pro athletes.
>
>How many non-mail athletes start whacking each other in the face with
>sticks? Other than Anne, of course.
>
>- --
>Chuq Von Rospach, Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:email@hidden)
> +
> (Hockey fan? )
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 14:18:27 -0700
From: email@hidden
Subject: NHL.com's Hockey Talk
http://www.nhl.com/features/hockeytalk/index042099.htm
In this week's segment, they two hosts (Brian Hayward and
Greg Millen) break down all of the first round matchups.
The last thing that talk about, however, is Zyuzin's slash that
drew the 2 game suspension. Hayward described the situation,
from the hit in the corner, to McKenzie's slash to the back of
Zyuzin's leg, to Zyuzin spearing McKenzie in the mid section,
then continuing with a Two-Handed Axe blade swing to the
face.
He said that with Colin Cambell and the hatcher suspension, he
felt that Zyuzin should be out 10-15 games, and possibly more
(obviously, this was recorded before the suspension came out).
He said it was the most blatent intent to injure he had ever
seen, and he felt Sorry for Zyuzin. -- Adding that the incident
left his speechless.
It's a long hockey talk this week, 42 mins -- all this convo starts
in the 39th minute.
- -----
Aaron Beck -- Customer Support - LineX Communications
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 14:12:55 -0700
From: Jay Zorzy
Subject: Wayne Gretzky
A few words about Wayne Gretzky. I think Mark Messier said it best: Class
and Dignity. I was lucky to catch some of Wayne's press conference, when
he made it official, and what impressed me most, in addition to his
graciousness and composure, was when the camera scanned the crowd, and
focused on his Ranger teammates, to a man they were all riveted on Wayne,
intently absorbing absolutely every word. Familiarity can diminish awe
over time, and these were teammates, peers, but there's no question these
guys had expressions of "hero" written all over their faces...
As I'm sure many of you already know, yesterday was #99 day on ESPN Classic
- - they aired replays of mid-80's Stanley Cup finals, 1987 Canada Cup vs.
the Soviets, etc. I stuck a tape into the VCR at around 9am and just hit
Record. Then checked some of it out last night...
Interesting young members of those Flyers squads from the mid-80's: head
coach Mike Keenan, forwards Murray Craven, Ron Sutter, Ilkka Sinisalo (now
a Sharks scout), Gordie's son Mark Howe, a spry Rick Tocchet. Whatever
happened to Derek Smith?...
Then the Canada Cup game - how's this for a power-play: Bourque, Coffey,
Gretzky, Lemieux, Messier - all in their prime, around 26 yrs old. And on
the Soviet side there was Fetisov, the KLM line, Kamenski, Gusarov,
Nemchinov, and a young 20 yr old fill-in named Kravchuk...
Interesting to note how the game has changed. It was only 10-12 years ago,
but back then teams seemed to go exclusively with two lines, with the third
line seeing only occasional duty. Actually, perhaps not that much has
changed, since that's probably what we'll see from the Avs ;-)...
- -Jay
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 14:20:31 -0700
From: Chuq Von Rospach
Subject: Re: Stuff in the media
>I wouldn't be surprised to see the bonus awarded to Demitra anyway. At
>least that's how it oughta be, the honorable thing to do, considering this
>is a team game after all.....
And, lest we forget, wasn't it our own incompetent idiot GM Dean
Lombardi who, a couple of years ago, got tired of all the fighting
and bickering and issues individual performance clauses tend to cause
and started rewriting contracts based on TEAM performance as much as
possible?
Not that we'll give him credit for this, of course.....
- --
Chuq Von Rospach, Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:email@hidden)
+
(Hockey fan? )
This just out: it has been determined that Salad Forks are not Y2K
compatible, and won't work after 12/31/1999. Until cutlery
manufacturers can issue appropriate patches for their hardware, users
are encouraged to purchase a set of chopsticks. The fallback plan,
using the dinner fork for the salad, has been rejected as tacky.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 14:19:13 -0700
From: Chuq Von Rospach
Subject: Re: Re: Stuff in the media
At 1:55 PM -0700 4/20/99, Chris Lemon wrote:
>Chuq has a point, I guess it's not all that big of a deal in a meaningless
>game, especially when all you're playing for _are_ performance clauses...
Yeah. These guys are, after all, human.
Another point, just as reference.. jaromir jagr has admitted to
feeling BAD about scoring the overtime winner in the last Gretzky
game. He felt like he was screwing up the party. This in a game that
had direct implications to the Pens playoff seatings.
Good for him for scoring it anyway. Good for him for feeling bad
scoring it. But it's a reminder that these are NOT robots out there,
and sometimes, situations and emotions and other factors all come
into conflict, and players have to make snap judgements about them.
Fans, however, can revsit them repeatedly, use slo-mo replay, and
then choosed to judge the player guilty just beacuse the fan doesn't
agree with the player (which doesn't mean the fan is right...)
>I
>guess I just don't see it as that big of a step between this and someone the
>caliber of Rickey Henderson sitting out during a crucial part of the pennant
>race to preseve his batting average.
I do. sorry you don't. (but having said that, Rickey did it with the
approval of his manager, and by implication, his management and GM,
so who are we to gripe? His bosses, who pay his salary, said it was
okay. But I digress).
Demitra had that bonus sewed up. he chose rather than burying the
goal to send the puck to another player who also had a bonus. The end
result is that he risked (and LOST) his $500K so he could give a
teammate a bit of glory, too (and both ended up with $0). And you
think that's the same as Rickey sitting to protect his average?
This guy risked and lost a chunk of change for a teammate. Rickey sat
and sulked about his own individual performance. Demitra was very
UNSELFISH. Henderson DEFINES selfishness. I don't have a clue how you
seem them as equal.
>It just saddens me a little, that's all.
Only because, Chris, from your postings you seem to require yourself
to always see the worst in athletes, and then find it even if its not
there, and then feel cheated by the athlete for having found it. You
tend to say a lot more about yourself than about athletes in many of
your postings. IMHO.
chuq
- --
Chuq Von Rospach, Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:email@hidden)
+
(Hockey fan? )
This just out: it has been determined that Salad Forks are not Y2K
compatible, and won't work after 12/31/1999. Until cutlery
manufacturers can issue appropriate patches for their hardware, users
are encouraged to purchase a set of chopsticks. The fallback plan,
using the dinner fork for the salad, has been rejected as tacky.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 14:24:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: email@hidden
Subject: Re: Stuff in the media
/* Jay Zorzy [jzoemail@hidden] writes: */
>At 09:36 AM 4/20/1999 , Larry Blair wrote:
>>The other interesting thing in the mail was a piece on Pavol Demitra
>>passing up an empty net goal at the end of the game against the Kings that
>>would have triggered a $500,000 bonus for each of the next two years.
>>Why'd he do it? Because, instead, he passed to Scott Young, who had a
>>$300,000 bonus on the line. Unfortunately, Young's shot was blocked and
>>the game ended.
>
>I wouldn't be surprised to see the bonus awarded to Demitra anyway. At
>least that's how it oughta be, the honorable thing to do, considering this
>is a team game after all.....
>
I'd like to agree with you, but if you award it to Demitra, why not Young
then too? I guess I'm a stickler about things like that. If you reach
the goal you get the reward. If you don't, you don't.
Now with that said... if I were the Blues, I'd consider taking either the
$300k, $500k, or maybe both and tell the TEAM that if they get past the
first round, this money will be thrown into the team's playoff payout pot
and the whole TEAM would benefit.
- --
do svidaniya,
~mitch
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 14:25:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: Michele D Ryan
Subject: Re: If you missed Fan Appreciation Night...
On Sun, 18 Apr 1999, Chuq Von Rospach wrote:
> Mike Vernon just had way too much fun (All of the players, actually.
> Going to the playoffs made them a lot more into this than they were
> last year...), ordering around his own personal slingshot cannon crew
Uh, they went to the playoffs last year too! . . . But last year, they
were given cup holders to throw, and they didn't throw well, so it was
probably more fun to throw frisbees, t-shirts, etc.
> Ditto Bob Rouse, who also went and got some sticks and handed them
> out. And I saw at least one goalie stick handed out, too.
I saw 2--one on each side of the rink.
- --Michele
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 14:31:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: email@hidden
Subject: Re: Re: Stuff in the media
/* Chuq Von Rospach [email@hidden] writes: */
>Another point, just as reference.. jaromir jagr has admitted to
>feeling BAD about scoring the overtime winner in the last Gretzky
>game. He felt like he was screwing up the party. This in a game that
>had direct implications to the Pens playoff seatings.
>
As an aside... it was reported that he said this to Gretzky, and Wayne
told him it was ok and that he had done that before as well.
I believe to quote Jagr he said "I didn't mean to do it".
- --
do svidaniya,
~mitch
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 14:38:59 -0700
From: Anne Paulson
Subject: Re: Re: NHL Suspends Zyuzin
At 12:43 PM 4/20/99 -0700, Chuq Von Rospach wrote:
>At 12:09 PM -0700 4/20/99, Anne Paulson wrote:
>
>>You mean of course most *male* pro athletes.
>
>How many non-mail athletes start whacking each other in the face with
>sticks? Other than Anne, of course.
Chuq said that most pro athletes have a lot of testosterone. I merely
wanted to point out that this is true only of male pro athletes. I
suppose though that nowadays, when so many athletes use anabolic steroids
(synthetic testosterone), it isn't only true of male athletes.
- -- Anne Paulson
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 14:36:22 -0700
From: Chuq Von Rospach
Subject: Re: Wayne Gretzky
At 2:12 PM -0700 4/20/99, Jay Zorzy wrote:
>intently absorbing absolutely every word. Familiarity can diminish awe
>over time, and these were teammates, peers, but there's no question these
>guys had expressions of "hero" written all over their faces...
If you ever get a chance to catch Peter Gzowsky's conversation with
Gretzky (replayed on CBC last night), do it. It'll put the awe back
in you. Absolutely beautiful piece. And only a guy like Gzowsky can
pull off something like:
Gzowsky: how tall are you?
Gretzky: (pauses) six feet.
Gzowsky: bull! You've grown an inch since Edmonton?
Gretzky: (embarassed laugh....)
he also pointed out something Gretzky hadn't even realized: in that
first Edmonton Cup winner, they had an entire set of players that
were still junior-eligible: Gretzky, Glenn Anderson and Messier up
front, Kevin Lowe and Paul Coffey on the blueline, and Andy Moog in
goal.
Think about that a second. We're absolutely thrilled with Marleau and
his development. Now, imagine winning the Cup with 1/4 of your lineup
junior eligible.
Another thing to think about -- think back to the first couple of
Edmonton Dynasty teams, and thin about who was on them. Then fast
forward to a year or two ago, and look at how many of them were STILL
playing NHL hockey. There were still seven or eight guys in the NHL
then (although Kurri, Moog, and most have now retired) -- and given
the typical NHL career is about four years, what's THAT say about
just how good those guys are?
Mark Messier, by the way, is now the last WHA player still active in the NHL.
>Interesting to note how the game has changed. It was only 10-12 years ago,
>but back then teams seemed to go exclusively with two lines, with the third
>line seeing only occasional duty.
That was something Gretzky talked about. He as asked if he'd lost a
step, and he thought about it, and then decided that the league had
gained one. Where it used to be he'd see a 6' or 6'2 guy and look
forward to playing against him, now the really big guys can skate. As
he put it, these guys go side to side like some 5'5" guy (hi, theo!
grin).
We talk about dilution of talent in expansion and all that, and there
are legitimate issues there, but at the same time, Gretzky makes many
good arguments that the overall quality of the game has improved. The
best players are still the best players, but the quality of talent
down the depth chart has improved. Where you used to play two lines,
it's now three, or with top teams, four. Everyone's faster, stronger,
more aggressive.
When I go back adn watch classic footage, I see four-five minute
shifts, and lots of time with the puck sitting at the point doing
nothing. Imagine that today? And lest we forget, the forecheck is a
fairly modern innovation, and today's forecheck, the really
aggressive attacks, are quite recent.
But, as Gretzky and Messier have shown, the best will be the best no
matter how the game is played, as long as the body holds together.
- --
Chuq Von Rospach, Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:email@hidden)
+
(Hockey fan? )
This just out: it has been determined that Salad Forks are not Y2K
compatible, and won't work after 12/31/1999. Until cutlery
manufacturers can issue appropriate patches for their hardware, users
are encouraged to purchase a set of chopsticks. The fallback plan,
using the dinner fork for the salad, has been rejected as tacky.
------------------------------
End of Shark-Bytes Digest V1 #1286
**********************************